tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post6847381988443325795..comments2023-08-05T07:24:04.413-05:00Comments on Hope n' Change Cartoons: Hold the CheeseUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-68338228019832775112011-02-24T11:35:19.718-06:002011-02-24T11:35:19.718-06:00Jamie- Thanks for the clarification. The phonecall...<i>Jamie</i>- Thanks for the clarification. The phonecall to Walker was unfortunate in the sense that the PR looks bad when you take calls from potential big money donors...and I assume that <i>all</i> politicians do. <br /><br />Happily, Walker didn't say anything bad...and the notion that he wants to take a baseball bat to anyone is preposterous. Here at <i>Hope n' Change</i> we strongly support Walker.Stilton Jarlsberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14503164551782304564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-12910677253368122822011-02-23T23:29:33.504-06:002011-02-23T23:29:33.504-06:00Apologies for my earlier post which got deleted: I...Apologies for my earlier post which got deleted: I meant to include more then a link but was so pissed off my brain wasn't fully functioning.<br /><br />I'm not going to include a link now, because I don't want to give this asshole any more traffic then he's already gotten, but basically: an idiot radical made a "prank-call" to Governor Walker in an attempt to, to, I don't really know, to catch him admitting he ate puppies. He pretended to be noted political activist and philanthropist David Koch. They talked about the union situation for a bit - a conversation in which ABSOLUTELY NOTHING "secret" or outrageous was revealed.<br /><br />And now the ENTIRE LEFT (well, maybe not ALL of them, but it sure as hell SEEMS that way)is acting like we've all caught Walker red-handed now. He should just go ahead and resign before they impeach him for...trying to balance the budget, I guess. Trying to help your constituents is a crime now, as far as the left is concerned.<br /><br />The entire episode is pathetic - the person who made the call is a radical idiot, Walker is a dumbass for not realizing it wasn't Koch, and the media is treacherous for presenting the situation the way it has. And I'm betting it's only going to get worse as more and more memebers of the media get ahold of it.Jamienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-16734477346676129462011-02-19T10:40:42.404-06:002011-02-19T10:40:42.404-06:00@ Jeep - You are right about many professions bein...@ Jeep - You are right about many professions being affected by their jobs. I wasn't trying to imply it only occurs in public safety current and retired employees. As is with most things, we tend to know more about subjects we are interested in than those we don't, so we talk about them. Our (yours and mine)comments could likely be expressed across the board by any profession or occupation,and even those who don't have jobs or careers.Bobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14359693832334079931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-42271466527105569122011-02-19T00:59:44.052-06:002011-02-19T00:59:44.052-06:00Jeep - and dip a finger to prevent repeat voters. ...Jeep - and dip a finger to prevent repeat voters. It works in Iraq... <br /><br />Bobo - sad to say, in MANY professions there is a large number of people who don't survive retirement, for exactly the reasons you name. Granted, it's probably not as intense for an engineer, or what ever, but the whole 'oh, crap, who am I NOW' thing hits everyone, so I hear. One of the keys seems to be finding something else to do that has meaning for you - for instance, my father is now an ordained Catholic Deacon - and I'm sure it's added years to his life. Good luck in finding your 'niche'. <br />All of you.Pete(Detroit)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-36850854340887955782011-02-18T21:54:31.492-06:002011-02-18T21:54:31.492-06:00@Bobo,
I was mostly thinking that in order to vo...@Bobo, <br /><br />I was mostly thinking that in order to vote, one should provide a photo ID and one's most recent tax return. This would weed out the welfare queens and princes who are going to vote for whomever gives them the most from the taxpayers' pockets. Also the Boston and Chicago and Philadelphia (and other cities) dead voters. <br /><br />On another note, three of the hardest-working guys I've ever seen were union workers from Chicago, believe it or not!JustaJeepGuynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-60367799680692411432011-02-18T21:11:20.563-06:002011-02-18T21:11:20.563-06:00Readers- I just want to say that I'm both prou...<i>Readers</i>- I just want to say that I'm both proud and humbled at the level of discourse here today. Getting the varied opinions, perspectives, and life experiences makes <i>Hope n' Change</i> bigger and more relevant than I could ever do on my own. I'm just one guy with a set of beliefs, a cranky outlook, and a buttload of clip art. <br /><br />But the goal of this site is to connect with others, and to let this become a place where we can <i>mutually inspire and support one another</i>... which then hopefully translates into more of us taking political actions which can make a longterm difference.<br /><br />Long story short, I think all of you are great.Stilton Jarlsberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14503164551782304564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-80785488580197065882011-02-18T19:47:30.315-06:002011-02-18T19:47:30.315-06:00@ Above - I wasn't seeking a pat on the back w...@ Above - I wasn't seeking a pat on the back with my posting, but I thank you for your thoughts, I do appreciate them. <br /><br />My opinion about what the city and states and the USA are going through are largely because of what our so called leaders in D.C. have done in the past decade or more to change the laws on banking, Wall Street, mortgages, on and on. So, when the housing market and Wall Street hit the crapper, everyone's money was lost. Then the government bailed them all out at the expense of you and me without getting anything in return, except big-ass bonuses for the very same CEO's who caused this disaster. That's partially why the pension systems are underfunded in most states. Too much money was invested in High-Tech stock by fund managers and not diversified as it should have been in the event something like what happened occurred. Not the entire cause, but a big part of it.<br /><br />I know the retirement system that funds my pension was overfunded 125 - 130% just a few short years ago. Now, they are at around 65% funded, meaning they have a 35% un-funded liability for its members. However, that under-funded amount is ONLY IF all liabilities came due at the same time. The system is solvent, but because it is under-funded, there is concern and a need to look at it and make corrections to bring it back to at least 80% which the fund managers say is sufficient and sustainable. <br /><br />That means changes to how the system works, increased contributions by members and employers, increased years of service before retirement eligibility, older age before a person can retire (which I don't quite understand...does anyone really want a 62 1/2 year old or older policeman or firefighter trying to save your life or the life of a loved one and battling a person high on drugs, or carrying you out of a burning building? I guess if I were in need, I'd be happy to have anyone who wanted to help me.) <br /><br />Sorry to say, and I never thought I would say this, but its a young person's job now. Gone are the days of the wise old street cop or kindly old fireman who saves a cat out of a tree now and then. Public safety personnel are suffering heart attacks at a much younger age now and at a greater incidence. Stress of the work involved, toxic chemicals at collisions and fires fill the air. Lung disease and rare forms of cancer are showing up primarily in firefighters and now some police officers. The average life expectance of a police officer after retirement is a little more than 5 years. Firefighters are probably in the same boat, but I'm not sure. A fair number of my brothers and sisters in public safety commit suicide after retirement due to a variety of circumstance (loss of family, divorce(s), loss of self esteem [their work defined who they were, not what they did], illness, emotional loss of friends and co-workers upon separation from employment, etc. My wife was my best friend when I worked and is my best friend in retirement.<br /><br />I will be retired 4 years the end of June. I am determined to beat the average.Bobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14359693832334079931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-28815437092533036132011-02-18T19:35:51.570-06:002011-02-18T19:35:51.570-06:00Again, how can a "democracy" survive? W...Again, how can a "democracy" survive? What is it called when the minority is made to work solely for the benefit of the majority?<br /><br />Isn't that "slavery"?John the Econnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-4914986783630743912011-02-18T18:46:40.632-06:002011-02-18T18:46:40.632-06:00I also agree with Earl & Harvey. Way to go Sti...I also agree with Earl & Harvey. Way to go Stilt, another great comic & perspective on these interesting events.<br /><br />I have an idea for Gov Walker:<br /> <br />Rent a few big-screens for the Rotunda & post the following:<br /><br />“If the proposed bill does not pass, 5,500 union workers may get laid off. “<br />Then list the names of the teachers and other public sector employees that called in “sick” this week.<br />Continue the message:<br />“If you know one of them, please thank them for losing their livelihood, possibly their homes and disrupting their families so that you don’t have to make minor contributions to your healthcare & pension.”<br /><br />If you think that they are outraged now, I can only imagine the initial reaction to that. But, then, maybe just maybe they would actually think about what their actions are doing to their union brothers & sisters, not to mention the people that ultimately pay their salaries, the private sector workers (this is where the real firestorm is coming...the private sector union members)<br /><br />Colby Muenster: Also note that most teachers only work 8 out of 12 mos a year. Whereas most private sector employees get 1-3 wks pd vacation & 6-10 paid holidays. So, the pay difference is even more dramatic.<br /><br />The easiest way for everyone to have some “skin in the game” is for everyone over the age of 18 to pay income taxes. No matter how much your income is. A flat tax & no deductables. You're in.<br /><br />Bobo – Thanks for your service. You are right, not many would do those really tough jobs. They should be compensated generously enough along the way for the risks that they take & so that they can save for retirement.SCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-92063511214564997322011-02-18T18:17:27.824-06:002011-02-18T18:17:27.824-06:00Agreed, all, w/ Thx to Bobo - Good cops are a trea...Agreed, all, w/ Thx to Bobo - Good cops are a treasure. <br /><br />I've never been union, but when I was contracted to Chrysler a number of years back, I was criticized by one of my associates. "Don't work so hard, man, you make the rest of us look bad." To which, my reply was, "it ain't the dress." He looked at me kinda funny, and I said "your girlfriend ever ask you if some outfit makes her butt look big, and your first thought is "it ain't the dress"? <br />He was not happy about that, but picked up his slack, for a while.Pete(Detroit)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-41860957060702884452011-02-18T18:11:55.229-06:002011-02-18T18:11:55.229-06:00Bobo- Harvey and Earl have both made very good poi...<i>Bobo</i>- Harvey and Earl have both made very good points, but your post is one I wanted to respond to myself.<br /><br />It is the Left (and very specifically Barack Obama) that has chosen to describe the events in Wisconsin as "villifying" public employees. That's how they <i>want</i> this to be seen... and it just isn't true. <br /><br />What IS true is that there isn't enough money to pay all the bills...not in Wisconsin, and not in the United States. And cuts have to be made. Not just to public sector employees, but also in entitlement programs, military, and everything else. People who have "paid in" for their entire lives are going to get less than they've been promised. Not because they're bad people, not because they're being villified, not because they aren't deserving - but because the money was stolen and spent long ago...and the politicians who made the original promises were lying.<br /><br />We're ALL going to get burned. But if we don't try to spread the pain equally (and soon), the entire system will collapse. Which is why the Wisconsin Democrats - and Barack Obama - are flirting with the sort of dereliction of duty that stops just short of being treasonous.<br /><br />So Bobo, thanks for your unique and valuable perspective - and a <i>special</i> thanks for the service you and your brother/sister officers have delivered. When the nation is going nuts, it's really nice to be reminded that there are heroes among us.Stilton Jarlsberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14503164551782304564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-74996888019561981642011-02-18T18:08:02.697-06:002011-02-18T18:08:02.697-06:00I was in two unions once upon a time....not sterot...I was in two unions once upon a time....not sterotyping, but wow what crying for having to 'work', and get paid pretty good with benefits. Many SHOULD have been fired, but they were union. I feel the unions served a purpose way back when, but theyve gotten outa control here and there...just an obsrvation.pryorguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-9136553647699504122011-02-18T18:01:10.712-06:002011-02-18T18:01:10.712-06:00@Bobo, Thank you for your service. I've always...@Bobo, Thank you for your service. I've always considered the FD's and PD's the local or home front military if you take my meaning. That being said I agree with what Harvey said. <br /><br />I'm in a private sector union and I'm appalled at the entitlement attitude of those I work with. And they don't exactly bust their ass. An unavoidable conclusion I have drawn working with these people is that were it not for the union they would have been fired years ago. NOBODY would hire people with their attitude and skill set. Or more correctly, their lack of skills. Other than bitching. They excel at that.WMDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03823864136119114036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-35504339254809855972011-02-18T17:52:42.130-06:002011-02-18T17:52:42.130-06:00Oh Bobo- This is not at all about being anti-publi...Oh Bobo- This is not at all about being anti-public sector. I worked my entire life in the public sector and found many of my co-workers to be the most hard-working, civil-minded, good-willed people I know. And this especially applies to the emergency personnel who put their lives on the line every day. And here's a shout out to Jim. The gay people I worked with were the best of the best. At the same time, we all saw the worst of the worst that comes with seniority rules, affirmative action, work to rule, nonsense grievances, etc., etc. These are not strictly union or public sector problems; they are the misguided product of trying to guarantee equal outcomes when there are HUGE differences in people's abilities, work ethic and morals.Earlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-2392525813972122332011-02-18T16:41:28.802-06:002011-02-18T16:41:28.802-06:00Bobo - speaking for myself, I don't include pu...Bobo - speaking for myself, I don't include public safety personnel (police & firefighters) when I curse the worthlessness of public employees. I mean to aim just at the paper-shuffling bureaucrat-types who get paid twice as much as a private-sector secretary for doing half as much work.Harveyhttp://badexample2.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-5667647583545285532011-02-18T16:20:57.395-06:002011-02-18T16:20:57.395-06:00And, one more thing. I am a Republican and vote Re...And, one more thing. I am a Republican and vote Republican.Bobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14359693832334079931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-2325994687469390932011-02-18T16:04:25.122-06:002011-02-18T16:04:25.122-06:00I am a retired state employee AND I still pay fede...I am a retired state employee AND I still pay federal, state and county taxes every year. Is that an anomaly? From what I have read above, it sounds to me like folks think retired government employees no longer pay taxes, so aren't entitled to vote or have a say in government. <br /><br />I also paid taxes when I worked, thus I contributed to my own salary. I also paid into my retirement plan. I also saved my money, made wise investments, and planned for my own future. I am and was responsible for me. <br /><br />I worked 30 years as a police officer. I didn't get rich. Yes, I made a good living and I also willingly put my life in jeopardy everyday I put on my uniform, badge and gun and went to work. I did so because that is what I believe in. I had quite a few friends who died in the line of duty and never made it to retirement. One of them was shot to death with 28 years of service by some punk a**hole gangbanger. Another with around 27 years of service burned to death when a drugged driver crashed into his patrol vehicle. Several others where shot to death or killed in collisions at various years in their career. Those deaths made me pause to think "what the hell am I doing? <br /><br />Public Safety personnel and military personnel do the jobs most people can't or don't want to do. How many people do you know run toward the sound of gunfire? How many run into burning buildings to save others? Would they do it for free? Would you? Should they expect something from society at the end of their career or is the money they were paid along the way supposed to be all they deserved?<br /><br />Anyway, my point is this: just because someone is retired from government service doesn't mean they don't still pay taxes and shouldn't have a say in government - same as everyone else. Also, just because they work for the government or some form of quasi-government entity, doesn't make them the dregs of society. Is government reform needed, ABSOLUTELY YES.<br /><br />Just my thoughts and not necessarily those of others like me.Bobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14359693832334079931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-23363565306003502672011-02-18T15:16:08.227-06:002011-02-18T15:16:08.227-06:00Sounds to me as if the way its always been done is...Sounds to me as if the way its always been done is not working anymore, not with the mindset of our culture present day....Andrew and Pete make good points, but you know once the guvment gets something rolling, it takes an act of Congress to turn it around......and a buncha them high-tailed it rather than be responsible! <br />Great cartoon as always, lotta astute commentary too!Glad Im in good company when I visit here.pryorguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-82755583560599066862011-02-18T15:13:22.584-06:002011-02-18T15:13:22.584-06:00Readers- Really interesting and well expressed opi...<i>Readers</i>- Really interesting and well expressed opinions here today. It really seems like some things are coming to a boil in our country.<br /><br /><i>Anonymous</i>- Thanks for the correction on "buses" versus "busses." Since its in the cartoon (and hard to change) let's pretend that Obama just had it spelled wrong on his teleprompter!<br /><br /><i>John the Econ</i>- You're right on target. It seems we've reached a tipping point in which the majority wants things which will destroy our economy. Democracy without personal responsibility, self restraint, or respect for others is not only meaningless...it's dangerous.<br /><br /><i>Colby Muenster</i>- As Earl points out, not everyone needs to be present for a vote to take place, but there needs to be a numerical quorum. So the Republicans have enough votes to pass the bill... but there needs to be <i>one more state senator</i> present to make up a legal quorum. So if even one Democrat can be dragged kicking and screaming back into the chamber, the vote can take place. A vote could also happen if even a single Democrat suddenly grew a conscience, a spine, or a pair of balls... but I'm thinking the "kicking and screaming" scenario is more likely.<br /><br /><i>Pete(Detroit) & JustaJeepGuy</i>- I'd definitely like to see change in our voting laws so that voters truly DO have "skin in the game." A vote shouldn't be a license to steal. Nor should deadbeats who can be gathered in vans and dragged to polls sway elections.Stilton Jarlsberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14503164551782304564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-71078180519508877522011-02-18T15:06:08.794-06:002011-02-18T15:06:08.794-06:00Colby - They need a quorum which is one more perso...Colby - They need a quorum which is one more person than they have at the Wisconsin capitol at present. It's a sensible part of most organizational bylaws to prevent a small number of people from highjacking a vote.Earlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-27762217507852632712011-02-18T13:40:44.134-06:002011-02-18T13:40:44.134-06:00@Andrew,
Remember, the "youth vote" cam...@Andrew,<br /><br />Remember, the "youth vote" came about because people who were "only" 18 could be in the military and die for the country. Why couldn't they vote too? Well, Richard Nixon gave the vote to anyone 18 and over when it perhaps should have been anyone 18 and in the service.JustaJeepGuynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-68159402124081910412011-02-18T13:38:17.751-06:002011-02-18T13:38:17.751-06:00Andrew, beat me to it!
Also, let's not forget...Andrew, beat me to it! <br />Also, let's not forget White, and Male<br />Those two I don't mind giving up. Universal enlistment, or raising the draft age would justify raising the voting age back up to at least 21. However, bottom line is the 18-25 demo is substantially smaller than 25 up, so they really "should" not matter so much...<br />Still, would definitely get behind limiting the vote to taxpayers (and their spouses) and let the parasites suck air. You want to participate? CONTRIBUTE!!!!<br />Also tempting to dis-enfranchise anyone on a gov't payroll, but that would include the military, and not sure that's fair... (ok, pretty sure it's NOT fair) <br />In Starship Troopers, Heinlein suggested that ONLY military get the right to vote (and possibly retired mil at that). Theory being that if you were not willing to put it on the line, you were not worthy...Pete(Detroit)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-41364861232173529902011-02-18T13:01:15.966-06:002011-02-18T13:01:15.966-06:00I guess I don't understand... Is it Wisconsin ...I guess I don't understand... Is it Wisconsin law that the entire Senate has to be present for a vote to occur? If so, this is one of the stupidest laws on the planet. What if somebody is sick?<br /><br />I was listening to Rush a little bit ago. I didn't catch the whole thing, but I believe he said the average salary in WI is $61k (including benefits, and the average TEACHER salary is $89k! (including benefits). OK, so these jack wagons are raking in $28k per year more than John Q. Public, and they are pissed that they have to pay part of their friggin' health care and retirement. Can anyone say "France?" I know a couple of teachers that can't find work here in NC and would move to Wisconsin in a heartbeat to make that kind of money. I think the Gov. should fire all their asses and go hire some people who are willing to work for a living. Remember when all the air traffic controllers went on strike? POW! Weren't expecting THAT, wre they?Colby Muensternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-53514093475620954932011-02-18T12:41:47.527-06:002011-02-18T12:41:47.527-06:00The original Constitution did exactly that. Voters...The original Constitution did exactly that. Voters had to be 25 or older (no 'youth vote') and LANDOWNERS...ie, tax payers with skin in the game and roots and stakes in their community.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993108951931633758.post-82170826234928976432011-02-18T12:33:48.085-06:002011-02-18T12:33:48.085-06:00JohnTheEcon: Democracy will survive just fine with...JohnTheEcon: Democracy will survive just fine with >50% living off the productive ones. In fact, it is democracy that allow such situations to occur. What cannot survive is a thriving economy. I have always supported a concept similar to JustaJeepGuy's idea. I would still keep one citizen/one vote but I would add an extra vote for every $10K in fed taxes for example. The parasites who claim that the evil wealthy don't pay taxes would be happy because if that were true, then the evil ones would not get any extra votes. The rest of us who know better could direct our tax money to where it should go. I know, it's a dream but a fellow can dream, right?TheOldMannoreply@blogger.com