In the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," a desperate Richard Dreyfuss is grateful when another witness comes forward to say that he saw the same UFO...but then throws his credibility into the dumper by starting a rant about also having seen Bigfoot.
Similarly, a Koran-burning church has come forward to remind us that the only thing worse than having adversaries is having complete dumbasses who claim to be on your side.
The Dove World Outreach church of Gainesville, Florida is holding a 9/11 Koran burning to show that Islam is something they "hate, as it is hateful."
Of course, the mainstream media has just been aching to find cretins who make no differentiation between terrorists and mainstream Muslims, and so the story has gone worldwide. Which is why there are anti-American riots occurring in places like Afghanistan, where American lives will be put in additional jeopardy.
Apparently, the dimwits in the Dove World Outreach church don't really understand that by acting out of hatred and ignorance, they give both radical Muslims and mainstream liberals the greatest possible comfort and aid. Moreover, by attacking freedom of religion, they unwittingly undermine their own constitutional protections.
Hope n' Change doesn't want to be hypocritical; we've got problems with certain aspects of Islam, and we're firmly against the Ground Zero mosque...not because the people involved don't have a right to build it, but because the location and circumstances make it offensive and insensitive. And we also have problems with so-called Christian groups like the Westboro Baptist Church who picket the funerals of American soldiers, saying their deaths are a blood sacrifice for an angry god who "hates fags." We don't know who the hell they worship, but we want no part of Him.
Whether anti-American terrorists or the Dove World Outreach church, we have no respect for any religious group that defines itself not by how it loves, but by whom they hate.
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29 comments:
It would be great to find that this church is claiming they're going to burn Korans but they don't really intend to, just to make a point about freedom of religion. I don't expect it, though.
Oh, and not to be pedantic, but that last line should be "...WHOM they hate."
Anonymous- Actually we knew it should have been "whom," and forgot to correct it. Until your reminder!
*Sigh* Some of you Toe Crunchers are always calling us a step higher just when we think we are so near Home. LOL! THANKS!
One more big deep breath, one more High step up, one more person that I know that what I've been taught, I must share/teach with another, staying on the Upward Road.
And grand as I like to think I are sometimes, I know, He ain't finished with me Yet! Thank God!
So LOL! hehehehehe
- Rose
but yet they too have a right to their beliefs. it an unwinable argument.
They have a right to their beliefs, but they can't claim any "moral high ground" when their beliefs drag them into the dirt in that manner.
I'd like to point out that the pastor of Westboro Baptist Church is a long time Democrat. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps#Democratic_Party) I agree with today's comic's official commentary, although I would keep it to a shorter, "You're not helping."
I agree with this, but what most concerns me is the fact that Gen. Patraeus decided to condemn the church's actions. I find that to be a VERY slippery slope, when we have military generals commenting on the actions of a civilian church.
Every society has it's share of cranks, crackpots and silly people. They tend to be more evident in free societies and most evident in our society. They get press because they are odd or offensive, not because they are important. This is one of the prices we pay for our freedom. Freedom is worth the price, so we shake our heads and feel compelled to denounce the nutjobs because not denouncing them is misconstrued and reported by the press as acceptance. I would be happy to completely ignore them and let them whither without the publicity they seek. So, who is to be blamed; the insignificant minority of crazies or the media that gives the crazies their national forum?
I agree ... not helpful at all. Gives ammunition to the left, no doubt.
Having said that, if a church (however misguided, stupid or myopic) chooses to burn the religious text of another church in some kind of protest, how does that infringe on the other churches right to practice their faith? Or is this only a problem because the other church in this case is Islam and we all know how followers of “the religion of peace” react to any protest against their faith. Will the outcry be as loud when the shoe is on the other foot? No … it won’t.
This planned book burning is wrong for the same reason that building a Mosque near the site of the former WTC is wrong. They have a right to do it, but it is offensive and insensitive. And, in this case, it will lead to yet another demonstration of how pluralistic Islam is, which could well result in the deaths of many.
More than anything else I am enjoying the irony of the apparent worldwide (if one is to believe the msm) condemnation of the planned non-violent actions of an insignificant 30-something member intolerant church...while at the same time we seek to mollify the deadly violent faction of a 1+ billion member religion by appeasement.
"Don't burn the Koran because it demonstrates intolerance and will surely incite violent reprisals from the oh-so-tolerant faction of the Religion of Peace".
I find the whole thing hilarious.
I usually love the posts on this site but on this one I must call foul. Is it a good idea for this church to burn Korans? Maybe or maybe not, thats not what I want to address here.
What I do want to point out is this:
1. Their decision to burn Korans that they have purchased is wholly in line with freedom of religion and free expression and
2. Petraeus's warning about how such an action may put our troops in danger implicitly shows how Islam is not the "religion of peace" many like to pretend it is.
Its very upsetting to me that, as a Christian, people like Westboro and those Koran-burners, among others, give us a bad name. And they give the "other side" a credibility they do not deserve...because of idiotic behavior by "our" side (not that I'm claiming them...I'm not...you cannot be a true Christian and behave like that.) People learn to hate Christianity because of despicable actions like those mentioned, and then we who are trying to just be good citizens and do the right thing as Christians start being looked upon with suspicion.
*Sigh*
I will say that if Obama would get off the golf course and do something about our national security...and something about our national pride (i.e. the question of mosques on or near ground zero)...maybe people wouldn't start doing crazy things like burning Korans (again, I disagree with it) in order to get a message across. When the government starts going crazy...alot of things follow.
Westboro, though, has no excuse....they're just an insult to the entire country.
Well said, Stilton!
Suzy:
You make an excellent point. If we had more real leadership perhaps people wouldn't feel so powerless and rudderless, causing them to engage in acts of lashing out. We should be able to count on national "leaders" to lead, not just scold.
Readers- Some topics clearly hit a nerve, and the number of comments today shows that this is one of them. A lot of good points and interesting reading.
Erik- Frankly we're glad that Petraeus spoke out. The church's actions, while constitutionally protected, accomplish nothing positive and increase the danger to our troops. Which really makes it a very costly (and very un-Christian) act of self-agrandizement.
Angry Hoosier Dad- You're right that every society has cranks and kooks, and this little band of troublemakers would be harmless except for a mainstream media that is actively promoting an anti-American agenda.
Chuck- Very well said, and you've really captured the essence of the situation: Koran-burning is like building the Ground Zero mosque... the people involved have the right to do it, but are being deliberately offensive and show completely insensitive to the people who may get hurt.
Wes Widner- We're not really sure why you're "calling foul" on today's post because it doesn't seem to be out of line with the points you make. The Dove World Outreach church absolutely has a constitutional right to burn Korans if they want, and such an action does increase the danger from radical Muslims.
Suzy- Excellent points. A big part of the volatility in our current society comes from the fact that our traditionally solid moral foundations have given way to the shifting sands of politics...and people are justifiably scared.
Anyone know if this church is part of a synod or some other type of hierarchy that could knock some sense into the pastor? It would be nice if some church leaders (any denomination) could contact this guy and talk about how he can turn this into a "learning moment." By that I mean apologize for provocation and insensitivity and thank those who helped him see the error of his ways. This in no way means I think it's wrong for a church to condemn radical islam, but that's not what this stunt does. It condemns an entire religion and that's just wrong. Legal yes; moral no.
Dr. Jarlsberg:
As a committed Christian, and an ardent Constitutionalist, I have to agree with you. Jesus said, "A new COMMANDMENT I give unto you, that you love one another. Either we love, as he told us to do, or we hate, as he told us not to do. God is love, says the Bible. If God is love, then Satan must be hate. "Choose you this day whom you would serve."
Erik,
Don't overlook the need for GEN Petraeus to deal with the few allies we have in this fight. People in Europe, Australia, and Canada look for any excuse to renew calls for the withdrawal of troops from their deployments to Afghanistan, whether under the auspices of NATO or otherwise. A quick retort by Petraeus answers that call without abridging any right of that particular church or anyone else.
From a force protection stand-point, Petraeus is right again as our troops cannot benefit in any way from the reckless behavior contemplated by the Dove World Outreach church.
I agree that it is a hateful thing for this pastor to do, and will only make matters worse. I have to admit tho, I think I know his frustration and feelings of NEEDING to do something about, not just terrorism, but, the religion of Islam.
According to a lady who survived being a Lebanese christian in Lebanon who expected daily since she was very young, to be slaughtered for being an 'infidel', the real problem is the religion itself. This is her website...
.http://americancongressfortruth.com/,
if you care to check it out. The fact is, to a muslim, any non-muslim is an infidel and must be eliminated. I find it hard to believe that even American muslims are not aware of this belief. If they claim to be good American citizens while still holding to a religion that strongly believes this way, I have to ask myself...why? I totally understand the heritage of being born into a particular belief system, but one does not have to stay a part of it, but then, I have read stories of the horror of people who have left Islam to become an 'infidel'.
I just feel there is something going on here that we 'infidels' just are not hip to and it may be an important part in understanding why things are the way they are concerning that faith.
pryorguy- Make no mistake, we're not suddenly getting all touchy-feely about Islam and the very real, and very threatening, problems that it presents in the world. We understand the pastor's frustration and anger.
But we also understand that acting out of frustration and anger can be a very bad idea... and if those actions are likely to cause harm to others (like our troops in Afghanistan) or make the situation worse (giving encouragement and succor to the Ground Zero mosque proponents) we can't endorse them.
I totally agree. Ive been on a bit of quest lately trying to get inside the 'mind' of Islam, if thats possible for ah 'infidel'.
I believe people like this are exactly the opposite of what they claim. Ask yourself, what could possibly do more to help the violent Islamists than this? If it were(Yep.subjunctive.) some newbie I might believe the whole thing sincere, but this H's A has been around too long. moronpolitics
I have learned now that the American Military burned Bibles in languages of Afghanistan, in the possession of American military personnel, in May 09, in order to show respect to the muslim Faith and anti-proselytizing laws of Shari'a - and we were not even told of it.
At some point, people will find a way to put barriers in front of invading enemies of terrorists that the politicians refuse to screen for dangerous personnel, dangerous connections.
Especially when there develops a strong appearance of collusion between enemy combatants and American politicians.
Germany is in an interesting battle right now, as a Banker member of the ruling elite (Democrat) has now written a book condemning the drain on the German economy presented by illegal alien and uneducated muslim clans that the politicians there make welcome in Germany, which the Private citizens heartily resent.
Until recently, America only had to contend with overwhelming numbers of foreign influx who wanted desperately to fully integrate into the American society.
Now, we are overwhelmed with political forces trying to use non-integrating aliens to help destroy America.
It is a drastically different animal that will prove terribly challenging to people of good will who wish nonetheless to retain their own National identity and national survival and not see it "converted" by FORCE into a dictatorship of Marxist/Shari'a viciousness.
In the West, the forest fire deliberately began by illegal aliens has now apparently taken the lives of at least 8 Americans, along with over 50 homes and buildings - will the illegal aliens be prosecuted as extensively as other people have been, before, for starting such fires?
At some point, all these various things are going to create a conflagration that as our Founding Fathers said, will take ALL the Wisdom of our most experienced patriots to save this nation.
Samuel Adams: "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
I don't see too many easy answers, though there are a lot of them, probably not nearly enough. Easy as in Simple, Straightforward.
- BUT, easy to implement at this time? Not at all!!!
OK Stilton, so what did you do to tick off Verizon/Yahoo just lately? Have had your site widgeted into my mail handler since your first day on the job, and now "OOPS, the Content you are looking for is unavailable at this time, check back later" since early AM today. Maybe it was that Newsweek article you mentioned that fried the links?
Ahh, people.
They don't like us anyway.
Burning a Koran is still legal in this country.
Let the politicians and generals continue in their losing ways.
The American people know where this going.
Our soldiers know where this is going.
The Ivy League idiots don't.
So go to hell necocons.
Stilton, get a real job.
anombrerose- you're right that this is a very difficult situation. If we automatically lose when we disagree with Islam in a way that could give offense, then we've lost freedom...and probably a lot more.
That being said, we need to exercise discretion along with our freedoms, which is why this particular act, by this particular church, at this particular time is such a bad idea.
Anonymous (immediately above)- Wow, double-spacing your comments really does make you seem cooler and smarter. Sort of like a freeverse poet or...something. Now that you've explained things so well, we'll shed no tears as wars are lost and American lives snuffed out. And I promise to look for a real job, like making snappy anonymous comments on other people's blogs.
Had some trouble with one of the sign in features earlier and never got something else on here - I found I had made a mistake in my last post when I referenced a forest fire and I confused two fires - the Cal fire was started by illegal aliens, the Colorado fire had 53 homes burn ed and 8 people missing.
Shows how important that cool minds prevail and help hot heads cool off.
Samuel Adams: "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Stilton - points very well taken.
Jesus always suggest pray through and pray carefully before taking actions - I recommend starting with Psalm 91 and 2 Chronicles 7:14 and asking Him for Wisdom and Clever Solutions, and Sudden Rescues.
By such means, I have even seen Great Dangers suddenly and instantly disappear.
Anyone remember a year or two before Katrina, we saw a Cat 5 bear down on the Louisiana Texas border, and totally disappear LITERALLY as it hit landfall - from Cat 5 to 0 - ZERO - mind you, within about 2 hours.
That's what I'm talking about!
Sometimes we have such miracles, sometimes we just have to tough it through, being obedient one step at a time, not bolting under the stress, as this pastor in Florida is apparently doing, and ahead of time, we usually don't know which is before us, but we know He is with us. And we can trust Him.
If He is trusting us, then we know we can do what He is asking of us. We just have to calm down, take a deep breath, and make ourselves aware of His Touch on our shoulder.
I find it fascinating that the only hateful comments here are posted by "Anonymous", who doesn't even have enough courage of conviction to post a HANDLE, let alone a real name. Way to go, buddy.
Yup, I'm busted. I'm not poet.
Yeah, well we all can't write cartoons while young kids die for chickenhawks like you Stilton.
Carry on.
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